DANGERS OF BUYING IN THE TRNC

• Hi to you all
  
  for those who have not heard of us, we are Simon and Vikki and we are based in the UK.
  
  
  Our parents purchased a property in the TRNC over 3 years ago and to date have nothing to show for their money, just a very large loan for £150,000 that they (in failing health) are struggling to pay on their meagre pensions. Over 800 Brits have lost in excess of £39 million to these Crooks
  
  We are hoping that this group will be able to lead or advise those as to the possible pitfalls that may occur when purchasing in Northern Cyprus
  
  The country is truly beautiful and the people also, but there are many unscrupulous characters lurking including Developers, Estate Agents and more worringly even Lawyers
  
  We work closly with "The Home Buyers Pressure Group"
  
  http://www.hbpg-trnc.net
  
  who have loads of very important information on their site.
  
  Our site is
  
  http://www.trncpropertywarning.freewebsites.com
  
  Takes a little time to load but well worth the wait.
  
  All we ask is for true stories (that can be backed with documentary evidence if required) good or bad, also nominations for "Good and Bad Guys" again with evidence should it be needed.
  
  We look forward to welcoming you
  
  and if we can help 1 person
  
  NOT TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES AS OUR PARENTS
  
  we will have succeeded.

  11 May 2007, 02:55 Victoriasloss

Replies

• Tough luck

  I sound so cruel dont I? well my family lost a great deal more than your lot, im glad you have lost 39.000.000 i wish it was more, what do i base this cruelity on you may ask, imagine having half your family murdered,raped, killed in front of you, tortured, then there homes ransacked burnt and chased away, leaving there dead loved ones behind!
  then to ad such insult to injury! give the invaders the same rights under (being Cypriots) as us Greeks, let me bore you more and explian! the turks are alowed to sell there properties in the south, come here, have operations in our hospitals FREE, get the dole, child benefit and so on, we have to show our PASSPORTS to cross to the north, (by the way there is no TRNC)and cannot even stay for more than 3 days, the can live and work here and reclaim there properties, to make the greek cypriots 2nd time refugees, SO BOO HOOO, please im not an arse, turn things around, imagine you had gone thru that and 33yrs of insult and loss!

  Samantha 27 Jul 2007, 09:22 - Report

• Bitter & ill Informed

  A great many Turkish Cypriots and some British soldiers lost their lives in the days when the great Greek Cypriot ambition was enosis (union with Greece). The only reason Turkey 'invaded' was to fulfill it's obligations (the very same obligations that Greece and the UK signed to) to keep the Island Independent. I am one of the very many Turkish Cypriot refugees from the 1960's unrest caused by Archbishop Macarios and his followers, burned out of our home by our Greek Cypriot neighbours.
  
  The fact is that the Island has had it's longest period of peace since the Turkish Army intervened.
  
  Yes we have some unscrupulous property developers in the North as there are everywhere else in the World and unless buyers are as careful when buying property there as they would be when buying property anywhere else in the World then they may get caught out.
  
  The main differance between the Greek and Turkish Cypriots is that the Greeks continue the hatred, who voted against union and the Anand plan just before they were admitted to the Eu themselves? Who voted for union and the Anand plan?
  
  As to Hospital benefits and facilities, who has had billions of pounds of aid whilst another side has none?
  
  You should read and learn and truly understand that there is never just one side to any story.
  

  Cypriot to Bitter Greek 31 Jul 2007, 09:03 - Report

• Bitter, lying Greek

  Samantha you are bitter and twisted and a liar. You Greek Cypriots are the murderers and even now you still spout your lying propaganda trying to make out like you are all innocent and that only you greedy Greeks lost your houses and land as if the Turkish Cypriots don't belong in Cyprus. Well the world at last is waking up to your lies but my hope and wish is that Cyprus is NEVER unified because I know that if it is the Turkish Cypriots will once again have to fear for their lives. There has been peace on the Island since Turkey INTERVENED to protect the Turkish Cypriots. Long may the Turkish Cypriots live separately from the Greek Cyp.

  Linda 04 Aug 2007, 11:10 - Report

• Definitely bitter and a liar

  Samantha you have been brought up twisted by your parents. I have many Greek friends who have learnt the truth about what happened. Many Turkish people say they want 'peace'. Well as far as I'm concerned, we've been living in peace since 1974, thanks to Turkey otherwise we would have all been slaughtered by the Greeks. I suggest you visit the archives and learn the truth - you have been bitter for far too long and perhaps once you ascertain the 'truth', you can then teach your children not to be so twisted - you owe that much to them!!

  Ceylan 19 Nov 2007, 09:20 - Report

• not all builders are crooks! Get real Miss Greek......

  i have lived in london all my life but will settle in kyrenia very soon with my family.sorry to hear about your family,s trouble regarding the loss of money. I am fortunate enough to have my dad to build for me as he is "old school" when it comes to building, having moved to cyprus 18 years ago after building houses in london for almost 35 years.So im very lucky to have that advantage, knowing that every single pound i invest will be used in the project and not used to line these crooks pockets!! I truly am sorry that your parents trusted these "builders"( more like goat herders!)and lost a great deal of money.Not all of us turks are like that. once again sorry.
  
  As for you my dear Samantha, like that lady said (Ceylan) you have been VERY ill advised.i am more than prepared to educate you on who raped,murdered, tortured and maimed who, but i would rather spend my time with some of my greeks friends when they visit me me open arms...EDUCATE yourself and yr children if or when you have any so they will not end up like you, twisted with anger. THANKYOU TURKEY!!

  soner 19 Nov 2007, 10:13 - Report

• Ony the Greeks are bitter - what a shame...

  It's unbelieveable how most Greek people's attitude towards Turkish Cypriot people (and sadly, this is also the case in London) is so full of resentment that its on the point of venum and evilness. On the other hand, Turkish people, who were slaughtered, who watched their families slaughtered and tortured, are not bitter and want peace. The Greeks continue to complain about this that and the other only because that is what they are taught by their elders and especially the Church. If you are Greek, go and find out what really happened - make your own research and read into the history told by those who are unbiased. Why not start by reading "The Genocide Files".
  
  As for you Victoria, I am sorry to hear what happened to your family, however, crooks are everywhere not just in Northern Cyprus. I am sure if you persue your legal rights, you will get justice. Change your lawyer!! There are many English families who have built homes and lead a crime free life in North Cyprus and are very happy out there. Good Luck!

  Ozgen 19 Nov 2007, 11:30 - Report

• Useless people

  Hi to you all
  
  for those who have not heard of us, we are Simon and Vikki and we are based in the UK.
  
  
  Our parents purchased a property in the TRNC over 3 years ago and to date have nothing to show for their money, just a very large loan for £150,000 that they (in failing health) are struggling to pay on their meagre pensions. Over 800 Brits have lost in excess of £39 million to these Crooks
  
  We are hoping that this group will be able to lead or advise those as to the possible pitfalls that may occur when purchasing in Northern Cyprus
  
  The country is truly beautiful and the people also, but there are many unscrupulous characters lurking including Developers, Estate Agents and more worringly even Lawyers
  
  We work closly with "The Home Buyers Pressure

  Useless people 05 Jan 2008, 07:38 - Report

• Same happens in the South

  I do not condone the poor behavior of a few people in the North, but these things also happen in the South. Let us not forget this.
  
  Always! I mean always get an independent solicitor and have the land title checked -- not just in Cyprus, but anywhere in the world.
  
  Do not beleive people because they are nice.

  Tim10 06 Jan 2008, 03:26 - Report

• Dwelling on the past

  firstly i would like to say how sorry i was to read simon and vikki's story .this island will never move on if people hold so much bitterness inside .im english and i move to northern cyprus just over a year ago .. everyday i have wished to go back ..and i would say 8 out of 10 people on this island would have a story to tell about something bad that has happened to them not just us english form cypriot ,turkish and any other nationalty living on this island ..but this country is still developing and they havent quite got the hang of anything yet but they will in time .. im an outsider looking in .Turkey help northern cyprus there is good and bad in all countries ..majorety of people on this island woldnt give them the time of day how sad is that ..there is just as much bitterness from the turkish cypriots towards the turkish on this island ..in war lost of bad things happen to both sides .. england is no longer england its a nation of many are all the brits bitter and twisted i dont think so

  kim3 09 Aug 2008, 03:23 - Report

• The truth

  The truth is that 200,000 people were forced a gunpoint to leave their homes and land behind. The same homes and land you people are buying and selling. The Turkish army did not invade with flowers and xmas carols but with Napalm and M16's. My home is in Morphou (Guzelryut to you) and I will get it back. I will also take great pleasure in kicking out the English scumbag thats residing in it because he bought it a bargain price without thought or consideration for its legal owners.

  James 09 Dec 2008, 04:43 - Report

• Silly little James

  This message is to James. How dare you call anyone you do not know personally a scumbag.
  
  If someone is residing in your legaly owned property, the only way you will every get a chance of reclaiming it is if your greek cypriot people wake up and come to some kind of amicable agreement with TRNC. At the end of the day, you only have the Greeks to blame for losing your home so if anyone is a scumbag here , I would look closer to home if I were you.
  
  Also, you may never get your home back, it could end up that you receice some kind of compensation from the goverment of Turkey (which could be a lot less than what the land is worth) and the English scumbag living there might never have to pay a penny of it.
  
  No-one knows what is going to happen, but I tell you this, you will never have a say in it. The EU will ultimately decide.
  
  Grow UP!

  Lili (Scotland) 20 Dec 2008, 02:59 - Report

• The Good News has finally arrived.

  The European Union’s top court hs finally ruled that the likes of British based Linda and David Orams have been dealing in stolen property and must pay compensation to the rightful owner. This ruling will result in thousands of the Oram’s compatriots finding themselves in the same situation. They have been dealing in stolen property and should not only pay compensation but also they should also be gaoled for a period to give them time to reflect and to set an example to other foreigners who have stolen property in the illegally occupied part of Northern Cyprus. It is hoped that arrest warrants will also be issued to Interpol for their apprehension should they at any time leave their sanctuary in the in the Turkish occupied part of Northern Cyprus. Lili the EU will ultimately decide. I love the argument put forward by the Turkish sympathisers calling for the Northern part of Cyprus to be recognised and to be treated the same as the south because it supported the Annan Plan. Naturally they would support it as they had everything to gain at the expense of the people of Southern Cyprus. It is time that the Turks faced the facts and admitted that they slaughtered at leat 1.5 Christians in what is known as the Armenian genocide in 1915 and to recognise the 16 million Kurdish people living in Turkey and give them a homeland. History will show that both Britain and the USA are responsible for many of the problems experienced in the Middle East and the likes of Cyprus. It is time that the Cypriot government followed the lead of Malta’s Dom Mintoff who when in government took action to get rid of the British Military bases from Maltese soil. The British military bases on Cyprus must be handed over to the legitimate government of the island. It is time for the British and their USA friends to be ousted from the island.

  Mike 28 Apr 2009, 05:07 - Report

• James obviously was not silly at all!

  Since December lots have changed. The EU HAS ultimately decided. The orams and every other "oram" will now face justice. All you "buyers", knew from the beginning that you were buying the land of someone that was violently forced to leave his property, dreams, dead family and hopes for a future behind. You found, buying cheap property a "real deal". You found, that building your future and dreams on someone elses pain was a "real deal". You all knew the truth but prefered to hide behind your little fingures. Now it's pay time. The time has come to conpensate the LEGAL owners atlast. You will wake up every morning thinking whether the bailiff will come knocking on your door, and it's not going to be for a cup of turkish coffee. Enjoy the rest of your stay in Cyprus.
  I LOVE CYPRUS!!

  Greek Christian Orthodox 02 May 2009, 10:31 - Report

• THOU SHALL NOT STEAL

  This is an open message to all christians, english, germans etc. who "bought" their dream house in the northern occupied area of Cyprus.
  I assume you are content with your bargain deal and living in a beautiful home near the sea, enjoying fresh fish and consuming lots of alcohol. I am wondering though, how does it really feel living in the house or on the land that belongs to sombody else? How does it feel knowing that you knowingly conspired with common law thieves? Did you really think you would get away with it forever? Did you think that there would be no justice? Did you think that the rest of the world would close their eyes to this as you did?
  
  Time has come for you to face reality, truth and justice. A good idea would be to hire as many "lawyers"as you can and instruct them to represent you in front of the courts and Gods eyes. I wonder how well they will do! Will they do as well as they did the time they sold you stolen property?
  As a Christian i will pray for you.

  Greek Christian Orthodox 02 May 2009, 10:57 - Report

• TRNC

  People want to do their history before believing the Greeks in Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriots suffered Genocide and ethnic cleansing before the Nation of Turkey came to their rescue - quite legally under the terms agreed by Greece and the UK in 1960 for Cypriot independance. The only way Cyprus can be secure for both Turkish residents and others is for the Greeks to be kept from repeating their attempts at enosis which they still hope to achieve at some point. It is a belief that is about as likely as getting Constaninople returned! The international community should be compelled to recognise TRNC as that is the first step of any reconciliation process in any case. The Greeks are expert propagandists. It is about time the polite Turkish community was properly represented.

  Rodney from Birmingham 08 May 2009, 01:39 - Report

• propaganda or truth?

  Dear Rodney,
  I am glad you are encouraging people to do a little research and study a little bit of history before they have an opinion of their own. I only wished, while reading the message you wrote, that you did a little reading of real history yourself.
  Allow me to enlighten you of a few details that unfortunately you seem to have left out.
  In 1571 the ottoman empire invaded Cyprus and occupied the whole island killing, raping and torturing thousands of Greeks ( as well as venetians and other Christians ). For 300 years this torturing continued and thousands of Greeks were still being slaughtered, women and children were still being raped and were sold as slaves. In 1878 the English "bought" the island from the invadors giving hope to the Greek nation in Cyprus that they would offer them a better tomorrow and a future for them and their children. They truly believed and trusted that the nightmare would come to an end. During the second world war Greeks stood by the allies ( English, French etc..) against the facists having faith in the promises of Winston Churchill that they would be given freedom by the end of the war. Unfortunately for them, England did not keep their promise and in 1955 the greeks had no option but to start their fight for union with Greece. In 1960, England with the blessings of USA imposed an agreement for independance even though they knew from the very beginning that it was doomed to collapse. In the meantime since 1958 the Turks gathered army and equipment in the island and planned the Partition that suited them. In 1963 the intercommunal hostilities began and the official report of the Attorney General of the UN stated that there were 245 Turks and 50 greeks dead. I would not think of this amount of deaths as Genecide and ethnic cleansing.
  i challenge anyone that may have facts of anything different than what i have stated to say so. In 1974 after the coup d'état, Turkey illegaly invaded Cyprus for the second time, killing 5000 Greeks, raping and torturing once again. They managed to occupy 38% of the island leaving many families without fathers and husbands and 200.000 people without a home.
  
  What exactly do you mean when you speak of security for turkish residence and others? ( which others?)
  
  The international community condemned "TRNC" as you like to call Northern Cyprus ( resolutions 541 and 550 of the security council of the UN).
  Of course all this may mean nothing to your petty motives ( buying a holiday home or drinking yourself silly every day) but for us, all this means EXISTENCE.
  All this dear Rodney from Birmingham, that you call propaganda, is actually real facts and history but if it makes you feel better calling it that, you may do so. it really means nothing to us and to the rest of the world.
  And just so that you don't worry about the representation of the "polite"turkish community, you can be sure that they represent themselves for exactly what they are.
  i hope Rodney that you do a bit of indepth research to broaden your knowledge on the subject since you are so interested about MY country.

  Greek Christian Orthdox 15 May 2009, 10:08 - Report

• Dangers On North Cyprus Property Purchase

  The links in the above post are now as follows
  
  http://trncpropertywarning.freewebsites.com/index.php
  
  http://latchfords.spaces.live.com/default.aspx

  Aga Buyers Action Group 04 Jun 2009, 10:28 - Report

• Greek Christian Orthdox

  Please state your age! Your viewpoint on life in Cyprus will be dependent upon your age and which history books (those written by the Church perhaps?) you have based you profound but biased knowledge upon.
  To take your history back as far as 1571 is silly indeed, why not take it back to 0 and start there?
  As for Constantinople, you must get behind the facts - it is Istanbul and always will be!
  Remember where the Greeks got rid of all Turkish people on another Island some years ago? No, I thought you would not.
  The world now sees the Greek Cypriot as a petty people, greedy and supportive of the old statement of never trust a Greek bearing gifts - get behind the fact that history is history or tomorrow will never bring happiness to you. If you would only stop the mine, mine, mine culture and share things - the EU would be good for a start as you broke your promise at the last reforendum - life would be so much easier for you. As it is, stay your own side of the line, stop going to the North and give peace a chance!

  Outsider 17 Jun 2009, 07:18 - Report

• outsider

  Dear outsider, Your irony has humored me.
  
  You are right.. peace should be given a chance. No one more than I wants peace and harmony, respect of human rights and good well being in a democratic society. It seems you have absolutely no idea what these words mean or what they feel like.
  
  Just to set the record straight, the information i gave in my previous message did not come from any church books or any school books. History books written by european authors, documentaries on the Cyprus Problem such as UN resolutions, findings of the European Court of Human Rights and findings of the UN Commission of Human Rights have not been written by the church. All this serious documentation can be found in Libraries, bookstores and archives.
  
  It seems you are a very confused person. Are you sure you understand what the word "history" actually means?
  Do you know what the word Istanbul actually means? I take it you don't so i will try, very briefly to explain.
  Istanbul originates from the greek phrase "is tin POLI". POLI is the abbreviation of Constantinoupolis. What do you mean "...It is Istanbul and always will be" you outsider peace maker?
  
  You are such an outsider that you actually believe that the world considers Greeks to be petty and greedy? are you from another planet? The old saying you have mentioned above comes from Greek History and the correct version is FEAR the Danaus bringing gifts. Look it up in a history book. But, you are SUCH an outsider that you actually interpreted it wrongly in your own twisted perception of facts.
  
  The Greek Island you mentioned.. would you be talking about the Greek Island of Crete? Should they have accpeted to be under turkish slavery to make you happy? That would be PEACE for you would it?
  As to the 'mine, mine culture', i would like you to know that the turks are occupying the house of my parents, the house of my grandparents, and the houses of many many many other greeks. well, here is my suggestion. I assume you have a house and if you don't your parents do, and if they don't... go make a loan and buy one. Then, i'll come over, kick you out of your home.. you can go and live in a tent under an olive tree for a couple of years... hope you won't die from any disease, in the meantime i'll live happily ever after in your home...no hard feelings. How does that sound? you wouldn't want it back would you? if you did then that would make you like me... with a mine mine mine culture.
  I don't know which country you are from but i'll tell you one thing. You would make an excellent turk.

  Greek Christian Orthodox 22 Jun 2009, 11:12 - Report

• Accepting stolen property both illegal and immoral

  The British and other foreigners thought that they can come and pillage Cyprus. They thought that paying less for a house makes up of the illegality and the immorality. Bringing up various BS about historical facts (ottomans EOKA and the like) does not alter the ownership rights which are individual rights protected by Cyprus law, EU and international law. Greek and Turkish Cypriots definetely have problems but those are our problems. Foreigners should not take advantage of the situation and interject themselves in this conflict. Both Greek and Turkish Cypriots love their ancenstral lands and they legally pursue their rights everywhere and anyway they can. I hope soon the European Union courts will start criminaly persecuting those who accept stolen property for the felony they commit. Some people need to do time about this.

  Kyproleon 23 Jun 2009, 04:08 - Report

• answer to kyproleon

  Dear Kyproleon... you seem to forget one thing... who is giving the foreigners the opportunity to buy our homes? There is a simple answer to the question and i am sure you know it. I agree with you, it is amazing how some people make their happiness on other peoples sorrow but it is unbeilivable how these people are proud of it instead of crawling under a rock.

  x 10 Jul 2009, 06:19 - Report

• Please why dont you all just grow up!

  Its ridiculous all this talk of who gets what. Who sues who. Facts are facts why dont you look at them. Just as one smalll point in a large and basically unsolveable problem take the Orams for example. I can never see taht anything is going to happen, they will grow old there and nothing will come of it. Why not just use a bit of common sense, if any court forces them out, it opens up a whole can of worms for the rest of the world and similar cases, Bosnia, Croatia and many other war torn places where property has been bought and sold since. The Orams bought it in good faith, do you seriously think that the EU is really going to do anything about it? Think again, they would have to Sue the TRNC to get anywhere, but hang on, that apparently doesnt exist. So perhaps go to Turkey, the major and necessary path for the UK and everyone else to the Middle East, yes like thats going to happen. Perhaps they will wait till Turkey get in the EU and then try and do something about it, but hang on a minute they never will, will they? For a start they arent Christian. No I cant see anything happening and all the time the Turkish army are in TRNC maintaining the best level of peace the Country has ever had, it wont. Bit of a stalemate in my opinion, but if anyone actually has an idea of how the differences can be resolved, realistically without this nonsense of turfing people out, I would love to hear about it.
  By the way, I live in the South and I have it on good authority that the guy that is sueing the Orams has been compensated for the land in the past, if this is true why isnt he being sued?

  G.B. 03 Aug 2009, 03:24 - Report

• all grown up

  Dear G.B,
  your analysis is unfortunately based on wrong assumptions. If the Orams do not comply with the order of the district court of Nicosia ( which has been recognized as having juristriction) they will face contempt proceedings and execution measures in UK. Mr. Apostolides ( the guy who is sueing the Orams) can persue all legal measures against the Orams in UK. He does not have to involve either Turkey or the illegal TRNC. Just so that you know and not make the same mistake again and mislead anyone that may be reading your message, Mr. Apostolides has never been compensated for his loss. In any event, he has a primary right for restitution of his property ( see Pineiro lines as have been adopted by UN). We, the Greek Cypriots that have lost our property and much more, will never stop fighting for our rights and will sue PERSONALLY all those who are "buying our land in good faith" in the courts of their country.

  Greek Christian Orthodox 03 Aug 2009, 09:29 - Report